Timeline for Are RaspberryPi's ever on topic for ServerFault?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
28 events
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| Jun 13, 2014 at 8:33 | comment | added | ctrl-alt-delor | @NathanC said “That's one question out of the literal hundreds of thousands on SF. You can't base assumptions off a single question.” – I think he gets it. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 22:03 | comment | added | Wesley | @Bruno And yes, that DHCP question would be either 1) Closed immediately, or 2) Have the Pi edited out by a kinder soul. The same happens for home-use questions. Even an enterprise SAN, routers, and 10Gb HBA question would be shot down if the person admitted it was hosted in his bedroom. (And many of us really do have enterprise things like that in our bedrooms, basements, or closets...) We're only here for business problems, in a business environment. If a question doesn't fit that, it's possible for the OP to conveniently leave that out, though it's not ideal. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 22:00 | comment | added | Wesley | @Bruno Yes, for years there has been a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, even for home-use scenarios where enterprise equipment is involved (which is strictly off topic). If it can be left out of the question, then fine, but if there is even an inkling that part of the problem might be the use of home-use or unprofessional hardware, it gets a headshot. If someone can ask without mentioning the Pi, we can't read minds, but at the slightest hint of the Pi being in the situation, it'll get closed once we realize that such a flaky system is being used. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:17 | comment | added | Bruno | Here is an example question that would be off topic be the simple mention of the Pi by your standards, but the fact that we don't know makes leaves it on topic. (From the date, it's probably not running on a Pi indeed...) | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:15 | comment | added | Bruno | "Askers will not get answers from ServerFault if they are using non-server hardware to make a solution of any kind." Not really, I'm sure I can find a large number of good SF questions that don't mention the hardware on which they run at all (perhaps the amount of RAM sometimes). What you're suggesting is that it's better not to say on which hardware you're running at all (relevant to the question or not) rather than saying it just it case it might have something to do with the problem but also make the question off-topic. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:08 | comment | added | Wesley | "denying the asker from getting an answer," Askers will not get answers from ServerFault if they are using non-server hardware to make a solution of any kind. See above references to Apple TVs (we get those frequently) and Playstations. "and denying someone who knows a "normal" explanation that would have equally applied to the same software on a real server to publish it." It is still too sketchy by experience to give a "normal" answer to an "abnormal" and unprofessional stack of hardware, or software. The few good answers like the one on the Pi above notwithstanding. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:06 | comment | added | Wesley | Again, you're failing to take into considering that even the * possibility* that a problem can be from unprofessional hardware by nature makes it off topic and not fit for ServerFault. Running servers using laptops, desktops, phones, Apple TVs, Roku boxes, etc. no matter if the person is a paid professional or making a world-spanning service on them, is always off topic. It has been shown to be too much of a rabbit hole to go down. Make a LAMP stack and run a profitable business on a hacked Playstation, and it's off topic. Same with Pis. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:02 | comment | added | Bruno | Again, you're making the assumption that the problem may be due to these observable inconsistencies, denying the asker from getting an answer, and denying someone who knows a "normal" explanation that would have equally applied to the same software on a real server to publish it. I'm sure there are some fairly exotic server room configurations out there, which may also bring their share of uncertainties. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 20:01 | comment | added | Wesley | "I'm disagreeing with the fact that you're assuming that whatever causes the problem in the question is due to one of these uncertainties, without giving a chance for the question to be answered." I'm unable to find a quote from be saying that. I'm saying that because of 1) ServerFault's purpose that things be used in a professional capacity, and 2) The Pi's unprofessional nature, and uncertainties surrounding it, the likelihood of a problem being due to that unpredictable and unprofessional nature causes it to be off topic on ServerFault no matter the circumstances like other devices too. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:59 | comment | added | Wesley | "What you're saying is that because there might be some uncertainty in the conditions where the system is running, a question cannot be given the chance to be answered, even if there is an actual more straightforward answer than one of the other SF users may know. " No. I'm saying "because there are observable inconsistencies in the operation of a device not intended for professional use, but subsequently being used in a professional sense, there can be no support for it here based on the stated purpose of ServerFault." | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:59 | comment | added | Bruno | I'm not disagreeing with the fact that those slight customisations make the Pi belong elsewhere than SF, I'm disagreeing with the fact that you're assuming that whatever causes the problem in the question is due to one of these uncertainties, without giving a chance for the question to be answered. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:57 | comment | added | Wesley | There are indeed professional servers running Nginx and Debian Wheezy. However, the non-server grade of the Pi's hardware itself makes even basic assumptions about the capabilities of Nginx and Debian Wheezy nearly impossible. For example, reports of phantom file system corrupt as a result of minuscule differences in power from bad PSUs. The device itself is unreliable in a professional sense and is not intended for being used in an IT Professional environment. Also, those "slight customizations" simply for a poor quality device are not going to always be trivial in themselves. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:55 | comment | added | Bruno | What you're saying is that because there might be some uncertainty in the conditions where the system is running, a question cannot be given the chance to be answered, even if there is an actual more straightforward answer than one of the other SF users may know. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:51 | comment | added | Bruno | I'm not talking about anecdotes, I'm talking about the fact it's running Nginx on a Debian Wheezy (slightly customised perhaps). Are there no professional servers out there running Nginx on a Debian Wheezy? | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:51 | comment | added | Wesley | While, yes, the answer was fortunately easy and not related to the Pi, the fact that the Pi could have been the culprit as a result of it's experimental nature and unreliability compared to something manufactured to withstand 24/7 and always-on usage (both hardware and software standards) makes it too much of a roulette game to guess. THe same view is taken on solutions using consumer hardware (PCs, laptops, etc.) in a business environment and asking for help. The problem could be transient and ethereal because of the poor foundations. Those questions have always been OT; Pis no exception. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:49 | comment | added | Wesley | It might be useful to have the advice of sysadmins, but not when the topic is based on unpredictable, non-professional foundations. That might be a bit of a subjective topic, that of "what is professional", but a rule by consensus is used. I'm sure there are anecdotes about some profesional service using Pi's, but anecdotes aside, the unreliability and experimental nature of the Pi counts any and all questions surrounding it as being off topic. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:43 | comment | added | Bruno | It could have had an unpredictable behaviour, but it turns out that the question had a acceptable and accepted answer which seemed to provide a much more "predictable" explanation. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:42 | comment | added | Bruno | @WesleyDavid, most software is ultimately intended for production usage. It's quite useful to have the advice of sysadmins who're going to handle that software, as a developer in general. Again, pushing away those questions doesn't help. In fact, sysadmins are often the ones who have to deal with that software once it's written, so advice on the admin aspects should be on-topic. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:40 | comment | added | Wesley | "Removing the Raspberry Pi reference is indeed one of your suggestions, and this would probably work in this case. Do you then care on which hardware Nginx is running? (It matters to a degree for performance, but the general configuration is the same.)" The problem could have very well been as a result of unpredictable behavior of the applications and OS involved because the Pi and it's software are not often as stable or well maintained as server OSs and packages. It's too much of a dice game to answer Pi questions no matter the software involved. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:39 | comment | added | Wesley | "Rather, judging whether the question is on or off topic should be based on what it's actually asking." Any question asking about a solution that is based on experimental and developmental technology, especially such things that are not even intended for production / server usage, are always off topic here. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:38 | comment | added | Hennes | Comparing a non-server-grade-device with any other server is not a good way to start. I think this is a conflict where you see "a server" as in "a device running a service. E.g. a DOS based XT running a webserver", where most Server Fault people think of a well tested 19" device with redundant power supplies and remote access cards. (etc etc). -- As to ever on topic, they could be, but 99% of them will not be. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:38 | comment | added | Wesley | "I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with asking a question about a Raspberry Pi any more than any other server (whatever its size)." The Pi is not a server, is not made to quality or specifications of a server. The device itself can have squirrely behavior based on power sources and SD card choices. The software / OS stacks made for it are not server quality and are themselves squirrely and a shifting sand. Pi questions are no different than someone trying to make a "server" out of an old laptop and hosting it in their closet. Put a Pi in a DC, it's still not a server. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:37 | comment | added | Bruno | Again, this meta question is about whether such questions are ever on topic, and whether to ban them purely on the mention of the RPi. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:33 | comment | added | Nathan C | That's one question out of the literal hundreds of thousands on SF. You can't base assumptions off a single question. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:32 | comment | added | Bruno | @NathanC, my point is exactly that this question is actually not specific to the Raspberry Pi (and thus doesn't really belong on that SE site), but it's rather Debian admin question related to Nginx and Django. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:32 | comment | added | Nathan C | It shouldn't be on-topic because an SE site already exists. | |
| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:14 | history | edited | Bruno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 3, 2013 at 19:08 | history | answered | Bruno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |