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The 'off-topic' blah blah, warns of cPanel as being off topic, so it allows moderators to just brush by a post, see the word 'cPanel', and put on hold / etc on the fly.
Yes, moderators rush through a lot, but they sometimes miss the key element of moderating --- TO READ THROUGH BEFORE making any judgement.
The server portion, is not unlike managing a windows server, but in Linux, with full shell access and control at 'root' of everything, and it happens to have a web-gui to assist in administration of some of these tasks.
So when asking about cPanel/WHM, and clarifying in my post that is what the discussion is about, why is this an issue. Further, this thread >> Where can I ask questions about web hosting control panels? << is a joke. The answer starts off talking about how you need to get support for the user side from your host --- no duh ... people really shouldn't be asking about that here as USERCP != ADMIN --- but more so, stating to talk to vendor on all support issues.
If this is the case to talk to the vendor about all issues of a product or assistance with their products, then this site would be barren of questions, as I can not find a single item that can't be answered by the vendor of X flavor of linux under paid/free support, or abc software application, or xyz bundle of software applications.
So why choose to exclude cPanel -- arguably the #1 control panel for hosts to install that allows them to create client access accounts from which the client has restricted access to their little jailed portion of the hosts server.
@EEAA - meta.serverfault.com/a/8061/216553 -- voted up 24. Can't see grand totals, but the subject (although a bit hazy), is pretty much the point I am trying to make. Administrative = okay. User CP = no.
I understand that you think cPanel questions should be on-topic here, but you should be aware that the debate has already happened. That doesn't mean it can't be re-opened, but the correct order of things is first to come to meta, ask the question, make your case, and win the day; only then should you post the question on the main site.
If - as you have - you choose to do things the other way around, you can't expect a full re-hearing in the comments fields of your subsequent complaint.
Not likely to fail -- 100% fail, and that was added as a comment on that tag by meta with appropriate privileges which is how much rep again ? I have requested deletion of my question on a highly censored topic, cPanel. And if it is so verboten, then please, unhijack the cpanel keyword and you will not have the onslaught of people asking questions which you think no one should ask and even when they are responded to, you think, no one wants to answer them. -- this is in general, not specific to you MadHatter.
Regarding a hearing, I don't see this as a hearing when 'the community' (definition of that in question) is unwilling to discuss. As is showing in the recent onslaught of cPanel questions, and dating back, they have answers and good discussion before 50k'ers come along and disrupt the healthy responses with closing/on-hold, and pointing to something vague saying it isn't allowed, meanwhile exactly a 100% closure/on-hold/deletion rate.
Sorry, @SanuelJackson; "not likely to fail" what? I applaud you for requesting deletion of your original question, but I note that you don't need to ask a mod to do it; you can delete your own question with the link at the base of it. As regards hearings, I agree with you; as I said, you can't expect such in comments - discussions are not what comments are for. If you think there's a question to be asked, here on meta, go ahead and ask it. It will likely go better if you show awareness of previous discussions on the subject, and try to show how things have changed since then.
sorry -- the Not likely to fail meaning, your likely in likely to fail makes it sound like it's possible for acceptance of a cPanel question. I call bullshit as the fail rate is 100%. Doesn't matter how obscure, or how simple -- on hold/deleted/closed is the result for 100% of ALL cPanel questions. likely leaves open the possibility of fair assesment and inclusion at least some of the time.
@SanuelJackson comments are not the place for this - or any other - discussion. If you think you can make a cogent argument for a change in cPanel policy, I urge you to make it in the appropriate way: post a question to meta arguing your case, and see if you can win community support. I have made some recommendations about how I think this might be best done, but whether you heed them is of course up to you.
Why do people think questions about cPanel/WHM is the same as
questions about cPanel?
Umm, we don't.
Forget all of your points about contacting vendor support for a moment, and examine the key piece of why cPanel questions (and the vast majority of other GUI control panel questions) are off-topic here. This is from the close reason that was (appropriately) chosen for your question:
Questions involving web hosting control panels are off-topic at Server
Fault because they customize their systems such that normal
administration tools and methods no longer apply...
Period. Full stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $100. cPanel messes up a server to such an extreme extent that standard sysadmin practices, tools, troubleshooting techniques no longer work. A symptom of this issue is even mentioned in your own question:
I am able to secure with an A rating using the details below, but
cPanel services doesn't allow the level of flexibility in the
protocols which would eliminate the problem.
Don't use a product that hampers you from doing your job. If you're required to use it for your job, and the software is not doing what it needs to do, then issue a feature request with the vendor.
Yes, moderators rush through a lot, but they sometimes miss the key
element of moderating --- TO READ THROUGH BEFORE making any judgement.
I recently made a post regarding the administrative side of
cPanel/WHM, which unfortunately bears the same name as the user
control panel 'cPanel' which is what is being confused here.
There's no confusion here, either due to not reading your question nor due to conflating cPanel with cPanel/WHM.
The server portion, is not unlike managing a windows server, but in
Linux, with full shell access and control at 'root' of everything, and
it happens to have a web-gui to assist in administration of some of
these tasks.
That's a poor analogy. Windows server management tools are native to the system, designed by the same company that built the operating system. As such, they're extremely well-tested, highly-integrated, and well-supported. (I'll take this opportunity to mention that even the likes of Microsoft have seen the light with regards to the pitfalls of relying too much on a GUI for server management, as more and more Windows Server management is shifting over to text-based technologies like Powershell, WinRM, and even SSH). cPanel/WHM, on the other hand, is an attempt to bolt a GUI on top of an operating system that is designed to be managed using nothing other than an SSH client.
So why choose to exclude cPanel -- arguably the #1 control panel for
hosts to install...
Just because a software is popular doesn't give it a free pass here. We're not excluding cPanel (see my below "As an aside" comment).
I understand - you asked a question, hoping for an answer. The question got closed, which hurts a bit. The fact remains that the community is very strongly against accepting cPanel questions, and has spoken time and time again on the topic, always with the same outcome.
So, where to go from here: not to beat a dead horse, but call up cPanel support. Honestly. You're paying them for their software and support, so take advantage of it. They'll be able to help you better than anyone here can.
As an aside, we very rarely close questions due to someone not contacting vendor support before coming here. Very rarely. Your question was not closed because you didn't go through cPanel support. It was closed because the mere presence of cPanel on a server makes troubleshooting this sort of thing difficult if not impossible to do without causing the entire cPanel house of cards to fall down around you.
A careful reading of the comments of this question reveals that the user has already been in contact with cPanel and found that the functionality he wants simply is not available (yet). I cannot imagine what more he thought third parties could do.
It was closed because the mere presence of cPanel on a server makes troubleshooting this sort of thing difficult if not impossible to do without causing the entire cPanel house of cards to fall down around you Interesting you should state that as I managed to do just that troubleshooting to go from what cPanel's PCI compliant 'B' rating to 'A-' on cPanel web services without said 'house of cards' falling down or any actual deep modifications to the system. I think you are thinking about Plesk, or if cPanel, from 1996 when linux distros themselves was not stable.
If by unpopular in the community, you mean only those with 50k + rep matter, then sure, in that you may be right since it's all about quota. Easy questions = fast rep. But that question aside from 50k+ reppers, was not being recieved badly until it got run over by Michael. What you failed to understand is the issue is in regards to setting the protocols, for which, even Dovecot is a mystery. cPanel just provided a box to apply that more conveniently across basic services.
Further > cPanel messes up a server to such an extreme extent that standard sysadmin practices, tools, troubleshooting techniques no longer work > and then you must exclude pretty much every distro of linux or windows since they vary dramatically from even a tiny point revision or even installation choices, server selection, and so on. Your statement bears no prudence as to why a server running cPanel is not subject to questions about administration. If you took two seconds, you would notice that it's all the same shit as on other boxes + monitoring. Nothing super special under !
Don't use a product that hampers you from doing your job LOL. Show me one product that does everything cPanel does -- better, and I will use it. Mainly user delegation and full CP for users to administer their jailed environment auto-configurable using a secure web api. --- ready ... .GO >>
@SanuelJackson I'm not going to argue this with you. You have a different opinion than the SF community. That's fine. It's clear that you feel strongly about this. Unfortunately you're unlikely to sway the community's perspective on this with questions and comments like you've been posting. I'd recommend letting this lie and using Server Fault for other topics, or just forget about the site altogether.
The 'community' consisting of 50k+ reppers.... sure. ServerFault is useless if not for discussion about 'Server' administration. When you let shit like serverfault.com/questions/702383/… on, which isn't even ADMIN, that is UserCP --- so hypocritical
@SanuelJackson Well, 22 people up-voted this answer, if you subtract the answerer (who can't up-vote his own answer), there are only 16 50k+ users. So at least 6 others agree with us. :)
@SanuelJackson Did you notice that the question you linked to was indeed closed, within 2 hours of it being posted? Please, I understand that you're upset. I really do, but please try and stop with the whining and complaining. If you really want to sway opinion here, being constructive will be helpful.
ok, so if you completely ignore the fact that generally, people are adding answers to these questions and positive comments before super meta has a chance to insta-close, means nothing right ? I am trying to be more constructive, but it's near impossible as I don't see how one can justify that 'the community' doesn't want this, when there is clearly a demand, and response. -- until meta comes along and closes.
Also, "generally", it's not actually true that people are adding answers to most off-topic questions. In fact, I've seen cPanel questions sit for days without an answer. Of course, it gets closed and eventually deleted automatically by the system, so you can't see those.
If it was pertaining to how do i manage my website in cpanel, this is somewhat understandable as they are a user, on a host, and likely not an admin. There are even videos of how to do literally everything from usercp side. But when it pertains to more complex management like making an adjustment that would change a setting in 4 programs, finding a compatable string for that parameter that they all support would be nice -- since they all accept the EXACT same param.
OK, we're done now. This discussion is going no-where and apparently you refuse to acknowledge the reason why the community has the view it does on cPanel.
