Timeline for Why are moderators/high rep users focused on narrowing the scope of SF?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
26 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 22, 2013 at 19:28 | comment | added | Chopper3 | @JamesRyan - I'm still waiting to hear one workable suggestion from you for how to make the site better, even on your own definition of better. All I've heard is bleating. You know that expression "if you're not part of the solution..." | |
| Aug 22, 2013 at 16:01 | comment | added | Ward - Trying Codidact Mod | @AndrewB We must stick them with quills, it's the only way! meta.serverfault.com/q/3706/6177 (scroll down to the cartoon) | |
| Aug 22, 2013 at 14:17 | comment | added | Andrew B | @MDMarra Law of the Instrument -- the irony of which, is that this is exactly what we're being accused of. | |
| Aug 22, 2013 at 13:51 | comment | added | MDMarra |
Where did I say that the site was "just for 20 users"? What I said was that the reason that high rep users are more vocal is because " we're the ones that answer the bulk of the questions on the site." We see more garbage because we participate more. I'm beginning to see why people have been getting frustrated with you in these discussions. You read a statement and then bend it so that it's just out of context enough to feed into the argument that you're making. Sorry, I'm not getting sucked into that game.
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| Aug 22, 2013 at 13:31 | comment | added | JamesRyan | @MDMarra This site isn't for just 20 users, no matter how many questions they answer. The ego and snobbery around that assumption and meta in general needs to go if SF is to succeed. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 21:03 | comment | added | Sirex | @AndrewB my point of view is there needs to be more effort on allowing people to quickly find questions they both can answer and want to answer, and help visitors find questions they can help on - perhaps allowing the scope of the question to be stated at the time of asking. The reason i don't cruise the site as it's increased in popularity is due to not being able to easily find questions i actually care about, regardless of if the questions is good or not. In reality that means i need to be able to filter questions by people in my situation. As i said last week, "professional" isn't enough. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 20:55 | comment | added | Andrew B | @Sirex Your PoV tends to be that the "enterprise standards" desired by SF are largely meaningless without really contributing to the discussion about how that goal can be clarified or improved. SF is not simply the site for "server questions", so that does tend to suggest that you're trying to participate on the wrong site. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 20:45 | comment | added | Sirex | just chiming in for this: "Decisions are made by those who show up, and right now the people showing up seem to disagree with you". I agree with him, but i've found it's a lot easier to lower my usage of SF than fight against the attitudes displayed on meta. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 17:39 | comment | added | MDMarra | High rep users are disproportionately vocal about these issues, because we're the ones that answer the bulk of the questions on the site. Look at the top 20 users and how many answers they have provided. Imagine if this community had so many low quality questions that they were driven away and the (literally) 10,000+ answers that they have given did not exist. It would cause a downward spiral in quality and an exodus of expert users that are the ones providing the actual value. The user asking how to make a DB using cPanel does not provide value, someone like Chopper does. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 17:37 | comment | added | MDMarra | @JamesRyan From the very beginning (2009) it was made clear that Server Fault was for professional sysadmins having questions about their professional environment. Questions that are too broad, are asked by a user that has done no research, or do not meet the criteria outlined in the help center are detrimental. The site was designed this way to attract experts. If the quality drops, causing the experts to leave, who is going to answer the questions? It would be the blind leading the blind as the front page is littered with questions about cPanel. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 14:06 | comment | added | Chris S Mod | @JamesRyan You're welcome to your opinion. Mark hasn't made any logical argument in this discussion which would make him a "voice of reason". If he wants he's welcome to analyze your comments, but he hasn't yet. It should be clear that I am adverse to baseless criticism, endless rants, and grammarcide. I don't take anything on board, I'm not a boat. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 12:25 | comment | added | JamesRyan | I don't believe that I have done that at all. Now you are not only shooting me down but @MarkHenderson as a voice of reason. It is quite clear that you are intentionally and not through misunderstanding adverse to any kind of criticism, constructive or otherwise. Which seems a shame to see in a moderator. But since you obviously have no intention on taking anyone else's viewpoint on board I won't waste any more of my time on this. | |
| Aug 21, 2013 at 1:54 | comment | added | Chris S Mod | @MarkHenderson James has consistently cherry picked obscure phrases, taken them out of context, twisted their meaning into something the original author didn't intend... I don't know where your line lies, but I consider it over the line into trolling. I wont speak for others, but he's been doing it enough that I owe him no benefit of the doubt. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 22:09 | comment | added | Mark Henderson Mod | @ChrisS - I do not see any trolling going on. I think that JamesRyan is being pretty calm and collected, which is more than I can say for other times this conversation has been had | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 20:58 | comment | added | user9517 | @JamesRyan: The vast majority of people are not engaged with SF beyond getting their immediate question answered. There are 134920 accounts only 1104 of which have >200 reputation. So yes you're absolutely right when you say a handful of people. That handful are though the most engaged and valuable to the site. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 20:03 | comment | added | JamesRyan | A handful of people have shown up to this thread, a fraction even look at meta. Why do you think that it is at all representative? The more you behave like a cliquely gentleman's club, the more you push away the rest of us and the quality of the questions won't mean a thing when there are no users. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 19:54 | comment | added | Falcon Momot | I think it's worth mentioning, as well, that my goal in participating in the site has absolutely nothing to do with optimizing the advertising revenue of SE. That's their job, not mine, and it's not like any of us get a cut. From my perspective, it pays for the existence of the site, and it appears to be doing that just fine. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 17:31 | comment | added | voretaq7 Mod | @JamesRyan The majority of users (3000+ pages of them) on Server Fault have reputations below 500, which I would say is a good, generous cutoff point for "actively involved". The majority, like in American politics, are simply halfhearted hangers-on. If you truly feel these users are being underrepresented by all means encourage them to visit Meta and Chat to participate in site governance and support your argument that the community wants a different direction for the site. "Decisions are made by those who show up." and right now the people showing up seem to disagree with you... | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 16:47 | comment | added | Chopper3 | James, we had this very discussion with the SE guys just last week - they're not remotely interested in a site full of crap question, they ONLY want good quality ones and appreciate our 'policing' of that situation. Yes sometimes, like any police, we take things too far, I'm the first to put my hands up to that, but the job needs doing and so long as we're held to account when we do go too far the job is getting done. By doing what we can to cut down on inappropriate questions our tiredness/anger at the worse culprits should spill over less. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 16:24 | comment | added | JamesRyan | Personally I feel that they are just as important because afterall, they pay the bills that make this sustainable. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 14:57 | comment | added | Chris S Mod | I don't think the majority should get balanced representation. Why do you? The majority do not provide value to the site. Should we not reward those who provide good Questions or Answers? | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 14:06 | comment | added | JamesRyan | @ChrisS You didn't read that properly at all. The whole point is that the majority DON'T provide answers but are an important part of this site not getting a balanced representation from you. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 13:43 | comment | added | Chris S Mod | @JamesRyan It doesn't seem like the majority are providing Answers either. Stop trolling. Chopper did not say the High Rep users should control the direction of the site. He did not say that a contributor with 300+ Answers should not be represented in the site's mission. You are not in the group we're seeking out ouster; we've stated this before. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 13:38 | comment | added | JamesRyan | It doesn't seem like that majority are very well represented with the balance always going toward high rep answerers. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 13:30 | comment | added | JamesRyan | I assume most sysadmins like myself are too busy to be on here all the time but contribute where we can so will never be the highest rep. But don't forget even non contributing viewers provide the footfall which pays. | |
| Aug 20, 2013 at 12:34 | history | answered | Chopper3 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |