Timeline for Is this the kind of language we should be promoting on SF
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
20 events
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| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:14 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://serverfault.com/ with https://serverfault.com/
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| Feb 8, 2014 at 2:15 | comment | added | gWaldo | That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered, @RaffaelLuthiger. Thank you. | |
| Feb 7, 2014 at 17:10 | comment | added | Raffael Luthiger | One other thing you are seeing wrong. Serverfault is "by sysadmins, for sysadmins" and not e.g. "by sysadmins from the USA, for sysadmins in the USA". Yes it might be that the sys admins you know do swear a lot. But this doesn't imply that all sys admins all over the world do swear often. In my opinion we do have to use here a language where everyone is comfortable with. This means as well to not use proverbs. expressions etc. which are not understood everywhere or which can be misunderstood. | |
| Feb 6, 2014 at 8:22 | comment | added | Falcon Momot | You can better express that the asker's boss is an incompetent idiot interfering in things he does not understand by being polite and addressing specifics. I don't disagree with your sentiment at all. | |
| Feb 6, 2014 at 4:02 | comment | added | HopelessN00b | @gWaldo And again, the tone (or attitude) and the expertise are part of the same package. You can curse the darkness or wish the frog had wings, but that's not going to bring the light, or create a flying frog. That is what it is, and I am who I am. It's just not gonna change, no matter how much you might like it to, so the only question left is whether (on the balance) I should be part of this community or not. In my mind, the answer to that question (and that the question even needs to be asked) is instructive WRT the broader problem of why SF isn't reaching the broader sysadmin community. | |
| Feb 6, 2014 at 3:24 | comment | added | gWaldo | Again, @HopelessN00b, it's less the language than it is the tone. Consistently your tone indicates that you have an awful attitude. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 17:33 | comment | added | HopelessN00b | @gWaldo ...and "if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops." But the frog doesn't have wings, so he bumps his ass when he hops. And I'm not tactful enough for some people's taste, so here we are, I guess. For the record, I have toned it down. A lot. But this.. the "language" that's being objected to in this thread... simply ridiculous. You're not going to be able to have your cake and eat it too on this one - either I'm around, answering questions, and occasionally pointing out that someone's boss is being a dumbass (and using mildly coarse language), or I'm not around. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 15:10 | comment | added | gWaldo | @HopelessN00b The point that it seems that you are not ACK'ing is that the site community does not appreciate the tone of your answers. We're all adults; nobody's going to be damaged or scarred because they saw curse words. If you were to take the emotion and inflammation out of your answers and comments, tact them up just a tad, you would have some of the best answers on the site. As it is, you're rubbing people the wrong way needlessly. Look, I want you on the site answering questions. I really do. But this site - a place for SysAdmins - has asked or told you multiple times to tone it down. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 13:59 | comment | added | Katherine Villyard | I don't think anyone wants to hold us to preschool standards. :) Honestly, I came into this meta thread because I felt I was getting mixed signals about what type of language was appropriate. I don't really feel enlightened beyond "use your best judgment and the community will decide." | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 13:44 | comment | added | HopelessN00b | @KatherineVillyard If you say so. But at the same time as we're talking about being as inclusive as possible, it's probably worth bearing in mind that having Mary Whitehouse lurking in every thread waiting to pounce on any trivial language which may be inappropriate for small children is also exclusive and off-putting. Really, who likes "grammar Nazis" or "courtesy police?" And which group of people do we think is larger? Adults who expect all language to be appropriate for a classroom of preschoolers, or adults who are put-off by having that standard imposed on them? | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 13:22 | comment | added | Katherine Villyard | I really do understand the point you're trying to make, @HopelessN00b. You're making an argument to culture and community standards, while I'm making an argument to inclusiveness and standards of public discourse. I think the point where we're diverging is partially the nature of SF itself: public or private. Are we assuming everyone reading us is one of us? and what does the phrase "one of us" entail? | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 13:08 | comment | added | HopelessN00b |
@KatherineVillyard That would be precisely why I don't make a habit of turning the filter off around people whom I don't know well. I'm not dropping f-bombs, sexual references, or vulgar language. Your boss doesn't know his ass from an SMTP relay. [...] find a boss who's less stupid, is perfectly acceptable language for adult discourse, doubly so for an audience of techies who are generally more comfortable with sharp language than most. I'm not looking to make anyone uncomfortable, but at the same time, if that quoted text makes someone uncomfortable, that's their issue, not mine.
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| Feb 5, 2014 at 12:47 | comment | added | Katherine Villyard | "technical peers, who, let's not forget, have a well-earned reputation for being insensitive and using sharp language." I personally grew up on military bases and am comfortable with profanity. Not everyone is. For example, I had a mentee/employee who was a Christian and very uncomfortable with that kind of language. He never said anything, but the few times I slipped his wince always made me sorry I had. Similarly, many women are less comfortable with that language than I am. Do we want all new colleagues to look and sound exactly like us, or do we want to welcome everyone who's skilled? | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 10:10 | comment | added | HopelessN00b |
@Iain I do implement some personal moderation, thank you very much. Furthermore, the only "context" in which Your boss doesn't know his ass from an SMTP relay could reasonably be considered "rude" is when said in the presence of the dumb boss being spoken of, or perhaps when said in the company of small children or nuns. To my knowledge, none of those typically browse ServerFault, so I don't see the problem here. Evidently, I'm not tactful or sensitive or family-friendly (or w/e) enough for your taste, and you're overly sensitive for mine. This really requires a meta thread? :/
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| Feb 5, 2014 at 9:54 | comment | added | user9517 | I really don't see why SE should waste money implementing a 'filter' when all it really takes is for a small number of players to implement some personal moderation. You've unsurprisingly missed (or chosen not to see) the point entirely. Ass in and of itself isn't overtly offensive but when put in context the whole comment is rude. It adds no value to the question and was ( I would suggest) only written to grandstand and play to the stereotypical sysadmin audience. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 7:53 | comment | added | HopelessN00b | @Iain Sure it does. In much the same way that "don't set up an open email relay" is considered a valid answer to a question asking how to setup an open email relay [on SF], this is a valid answer to a discussion-tagged question on what type of language is appropriate for SF. Obviously, it's also an answer you don't like and disagree with, so downvote it (again) if you want, but I can't even parse the logical gymnastics you have to do to claim that an answer explaining why mild language is appropriate for SF isn't an answer to a question about what kind of language is appropriate for SF. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 7:49 | comment | added | user9517 | @TomO'Connor: In the vast majority of my life comments life that wouldn't really bother me, I just don't see the need for them or that kind of language here on Server Fault. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 7:45 | comment | added | user9517 | This doesn't answer the question posed. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 7:38 | comment | added | Tom O'Connor Mod | Precisely. Unless someone's actually posting explicit hate speech (racial slurs, sexuality slurs etc) I'm pretty much not going to edit it. Mostly because I don't see the F-bomb as being rude, at all. Because like HN, I've been exposed to it since puberty. I also really don't want to go down this road of censorship, because it's starting to feel like Mary Whitehouse is lurking in the shadows. Again. | |
| Feb 5, 2014 at 5:42 | history | answered | HopelessN00b | CC BY-SA 3.0 |