New "Mainframes" Proposal — PASSED

Question

Update:

Thank you for your insight and feedback.

The “Mainframes” proposal has been cleared to continue.

Update as of the end of 2018: The proposal never got enough interest and has now been deleted. I personally wouldn't mind seeing some mainframe questions here, but I don't think that's too likely.

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There is a new Mainframes proposal in Area 51 about to undergo a final evaluation to see if it should continue efforts towards becoming a full site:

Mainframes
Proposed Q&A site for people who program, operate and want to learn more about mainframe and mainframe-specific technologies

Please have a look at this proposal and the top example questions. We don't generally split off a subject simply to give a sub-topic its own space, but the audience proposing this site has curiously little participation/overlap with our existing communities.

I'm trying to determine if the proposal audience is largely unaware of sites like Serverfault (and related tech/programming sites) or if they feel these topics might not be a good fit on our other sites (in either subject breadth or culturally). I'm trying to determine the suitability of this subject for sites like Serverfault.

Are the example questions predominantly on topic (and welcome) on Serverfault and related sites? Or should we tap this impressive effort (~2-3 weeks to complete Definition) to create a new community?

Any feedback welcome below. Thank you.

Answer 1

This is one of those areas where logical and emotional approaches give different answers.

Logically, much of what mainframes deal with is entirely topical here and we welcome them.

Emotionally, they're radically different parts of the industry. Mainframers are a small minority compared to the Windows/Linux administration population, and like the now-dead NetWare community have a strong sense of identity with their product.

Given that, a site dedicated to mainframes is far more likely to engage the mainframe population than a redirect to here.

Answer 2

Background: Long ago at University I was a mainframe user and spent some time learning about the IBM and compatible systems the university had and a bit about their operating systems. Later (but stll al long time ago) I was a long-time minicomputer user and sysadmin and had some exposure to higher-end minicomputers that were getting close to mainframe capabilities.

I started by giving quick reactions to the first bunch of example questions, but I think that's not what you want. I left the reactions below, just in case they're useful.

Overall, a bunch of the questions seem like "knowledgeable-beginner-looking-for-more-understanding" questions - looking for an overview, some explanation of why things are the way they are.

i.e. not a good fit for StackExchange, the answers require almost a book.

As for why people who are interested in that stuff aren't participating - there just aren't enough enough. Compared to the number of Windows Server or Unix/Linux servers, there just aren't a lot of mainframe systems around, so far fewer mainframe users/admins to (possibly) become interested in ServerFault or SE. Also, since the ecosystem is smaller (lots of IBM stuff, a few other suppliers), I would think most of the expertise is "owned" by IBM and a few vendors. If you want to know about TPF internals, you have to talk to IBM, there are no outside experts...

Here are some quick judgements: I wouldn't necessarily (and couldn't necessarily) defend these judgements, they're just my initial reactions...

In z/OS assembler, what does it mean (and what do I have to do) when I’m told my program needs to be reentrant?

Looks like more of a programming question

What is a dataset, and how is it the same, or different, than a file or directory on a *ix (Linux, Unix) system?

This would be considered too basic on many SE sites, the equivalent of "what's an inode in Linux"

I just did an apt install hercules. How do I install an operating system on it?

Seems like too basic and too broad - How do I install Linux? How do I install Windows...

When JES2 complains of a SPOOL shortage, what’s the difference between TGS shortage, JQE shortage and JOE shortage?

Seems ok

I’m having difficulty in a multi-step job Involving GDGs. I create a +1 data set in an early step but in a following step, I am getting “not found”.

On ServerFault, this would fall afoul of our "troubleshooting" close reason.

What DISP parameter will let my batch job build a new loadlib while I have it allocated in TSOLIB?

Seems ok

How can I find out what "RACF group" I'm in?

Don't know, maybe ok, maybe basic?

What are the serialization mechanisms available in z/OS?

Seems like too basic and too broad - asking a broad question about OS fundamentals doesn't work well on SE

Where can I get a free prebuilt operating system for an emulated IBM mainframe?

I want to access MVS data sets using REST APIs ... how can I do that?

Both of these seem like shopping questions

When would I use JCL and when would I use the Unix System Services (USS) shell to perform a task?

Maybe ok, but might be too opinion-based, like the difference between unix shells.

I need to allocate a dataset. What does allocate mean, and what are record formats, logical record length, and number of tracks?

Another broad question about basics

How do I access data sets from the USS shell? How can I create a Certificate Signing Request to install new certificates for web sites in a Sysplex?

Maybe ok

Can I use my current open source tool chain for z/OS development? (It currently has Git, Jenkins, Ansible as the primary capabilities)

Too broad

What are the fundamental differences between JES3 and JES2 ?

Maybe too broad, maybe ok... maybe there are a few really significant differences.

Why is the FORCE command dangerous? Is it safer to use the similar functions provided in monitoring software etc?

Probably ok

Answer 3

There are a lot of terms and phrases there I've been happy to forget since moving on from mainframe ops.

Without commenting on the specific questions, in theory mainframe questions in general are welcome on server fault (iirc I answered at least one way back) but they're tightly focused to a small audience and as such I think they're probably better off with their own mainframe specific site... though I do wonder if they'll have enough throughput to make it reach the activity threshold.

Answer 4

Are the example questions predominantly on topic (and welcome) on Serverfault

No, I don't think so. Several of them are shopping questions (eg "Where can I find free online IBM Mainframe Manuals and Programming Guides?", "Where can I get a free prebuilt operating system for an emulated IBM mainframe?"), and most of the rest of them are development questions, not system administration questions.

Answer 5

So my question is: are topics that won't fit serverfault (too broad, too basic) combined with inherent community a good reason for an own site?

Or would these questions be automatically "bad, should be closed" there, too?

Answer 6

The proposal has already passed, but I'll give my $0.02 anyway.

The mainframe is quite unique in that it jobs roles are often quite distinct, but solutions cross these boundaries. To solve a problem, some part of it may be for a developer to implement, and another part for a sysprog (sysadmin); a correct answer to a question would really cross from Serverfault to Stack Overflow, or elsewhere. Sometimes a question can relate to software, but since the stack is very controlled, involve dependencies on hardware too... For these reasons, I think it's valuable to have one mainframe site, instead of trying to send folks to three different sites and hoping they find a good solution that they can relay to others for future reference.

The mainframe is also—for historical reasons I think—bugged by forums where the standard answer is "You didn't read the manual properly. Read it again and then come back." A new, consistent site, is a great way to start and reject anything unhelpful like this; it should be great for experts and newcomers alike.