-9

(extensively edited)

This post (https://serverfault.com/questions/807412/backups-running-out-of-disk-space-possible-to-mount-a-network-drive) was flagged as off-topic due to

Questions involving web hosting control panels are off-topic at Server Fault because they customize their systems such that normal administration tools and methods no longer apply

This is dangerous territory.

Particularly because the question is not about a webhosting control panel, and one is not even mentioned. (Sven pointed out that the original question, before editing, WAS cpanel related - cpanel/whm in the title and tagged cpanel, and should be moved to another stack or closed. The danger still exists of driving new users away from the site.)

  1. SF users should avoid anything that is exclusionary to new sysadmins. There's a lot of us who bootstrapped our way out of the service support area into the system administration area. One way of doing that is using web resources to learn about new topics. Got 10k rep here and upset because an end user is asking about their web based control panel administration tool, then explain to the poster that server fault is about system administration. Root level admin. Control panels are end user topics. And help them move the topic to superuser or whatever stack is appropriate.
  2. Sysadmins are supporting cloud services, from storage to Infrastructure to Software, more and more. If SF doesn't support sysadmins in these roles, SF will become irrelevant. We need to revisit the rules that imply that hosted servers are off-topic to explicitly limit that rule to situations where the poster does not have administrative access.
  3. We need to police the comments on 'close' flags to prevent the perception that SF is elitist and exclusionary. The Linux world suffers from this perception (well earned in many cases) and it inhibits growth and healthy discussion. If the SF user base is not careful, aggressive, elitist and exclusionary comments will drive users away. (Though a certain other site geared towards discussion seems to thrive in spite of rampant a-holitis amongst the users.)

You might ask, "It's not your post, you don't lose any reputation, why do you care?" Basically, I migrate quickly away from any forum that is not supportive of new members, or where the existing membership starts showing elitist tendencies. Comments like, "I can't believe you are wasting your time on this issue, anyone who's been around knows..." are toxic. Guess what? There are new system administrators starting their careers every single day. They need our experience. SF is an awesome format to share that experience. But it needs both experienced users and new users to survive.

  • 1
    Actually, I realize my mistake. The user(s) who flagged the post were wrong. Amazon-S3 is not a web hosting provider, they are a cloud services provider. Industry leading cloud services provider. Their methods are defacto industry standard. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 11:47
  • I don't think your post will get closed simply because it is about cloud hosted infrastructure. I've posed some questions about Azure hosted stuff and didn't get closed on yet. – Reaces Oct 7 '16 at 12:04
  • Actually not my post, but the OP has legit system administration questions. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 12:06
  • Also, I think his reference to Amazon S3 is as a possible storage destination that he'd like to mount. My impression (based on the way he worded being denied a request to add a disk) is that this is a baremetal server in a colocation datacenter. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 12:08
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    @Xalorous: Please check the revision history to learn that this was/is a CPanel question, not an S3 question. Also, we don't need to do anything. – Sven Oct 7 '16 at 12:19
  • I see your point about the revision changing the question. And that clears my confusion, for the original post. I've edited this post here on meta as well. It explains why I believe SF does need to be careful in this area. Also, his question does not necessarily need to be closed, in edited format. But making that decision is dependent on his answers regarding the nature of the actual server, and whether he has administrative control. If the backup system he is using is built into his control panel, and hardwired to a certain location, he's f*&ked, we can't answer (& no answer exists). – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 12:33
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    I am not going to ignore the fact that I know there is CPanel involved just because the OP edited it out. For a vanilla CentOS server, this question would be fine here, but since we know he is doing his backups with CPanel, he should ask on a site where CPanel is not off-topic. – Sven Oct 7 '16 at 12:38
  • I don't know enough about cpanel to know whether it can do backups or not. But I do know that with admin access I can make cpanel send backups where I want them to go, period, by the simple expedient of replacing the destination with a symlink pointing where I mounted my desired destination. (Linux OR Windows). The real issue with cpanel is that most instances where someone is using it, they don't have full admin access. And in those instances, no matter what the control panel, the post would be off topic. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 12:48
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    We don't support cPanel systems. The End . – Iain Oct 7 '16 at 13:16
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    Ignoring CPanel for a moment, the question boils down to "Can I mount a S3 volume on a CentOS server?" Searching for this phrase on a search engine yields tons of results. There has been minimal to no research effort put into this question. It really is not a good fit for SF no matter how you spin it. – faker Oct 7 '16 at 13:19
  • My discussion point is about making sure that we don't close cloud service related questions by mistake (because that's what that post looked like when I posted) AND being careful not to be too vitriolic in closing comments. You all have been contributing to this stack far longer than I have. In this case I'm the new user. And I am telling you that we don't need to post questions here to get answers. And we will stop posting if closing comments are as abrasive, elitist and exclusionary as what I see. Once the new users stop posting, you've basically got a circle jerk of old hands. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 13:34
  • Wow, the negative votes. Forget about the post that inspired my post. Please read my discussion points. If you disagree and think that anything that whiffs of online hosting, in any format, should be closed and the user who psoted them should be verbally attacked and excluded, then fine. But you're exhibiting the exact exclusionary behavior that will kill the site. – Xalorous Oct 7 '16 at 13:38
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    because that's what that post looked like when I posted Yeah, but it turned out you were wrong and the situation is quite different then you thought, so the discussion is moot. Or do you think we need to be careful to not do something we aren't doing anyway? And for the rest: We have discussed this over and over and I don't see a point in a newcomer reiterating this yet again. If you come here as a beginner and write good, well researched, thoughtful questions you will be welcomed. If you don't, people will get mad at you. It's as simple as that. – Sven Oct 7 '16 at 13:45
  • This is not different today on Stack Exchange than it was 20 years ago on Usenet and 25 years ago on some BBS systems. – Sven Oct 7 '16 at 13:51
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    Downvotes on meta are people telling you that they disagree - nothing more nothing less. – Iain Oct 7 '16 at 14:11
-8

So the answer is, "Leave us alone, we'll do what we always do, you haven't been here enough to have an opinion." So the discussion is complete.

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    Well, sort of. And not at all. See, we have discussed this again and again (use the search for Meta) and I really see no point at doing it again. And yes, your experience matters because stuff wears you down after some time and changes your view. And it really doesn't help your point at all that your whole premise is wrong because we just don't close (good) AWS or GCE or whatever questions. – Sven Oct 7 '16 at 14:01
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    We used to accept *Panel questions because, perhaps, occasionally a sysadmin would want to install it or interact with it (not actually use it). All that got us was a constant stream of crappier than usual questions. We revisited the *Panel topic and decided that we no longer wanted to accept questions about systems were they are installed. That's were we are now. I don't see a compelling reason to change that. For reference: meta.serverfault.com/search?q=cpanel – Iain Oct 7 '16 at 14:17
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    "you haven't been here enough to have an opinion" is better worded as "you need to familiarize yourself with the prior discussions and present a rebuttal for the prior art". :P It's less that you're new, and more that you need to do your homework on the topic that you're stepping into before you can expect to play ball. Especially considering how often others (frequently less polite and as well written as you are) bring up the same topics with similar lack of research. – Andrew B Oct 7 '16 at 19:22

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