Is it time to kill problematic tags like cpanel, plesk, whm and webmin?

Question

Given the recent uptick in new users with new questions, I've been noticing an even sharper-than-normal decline in quality on the site and a correlated increase in the number of questions about how to do $basic_task or simple troubleshooting in $crappy_webpanel_administration_tool. The three four that stand out to me are cpanel, plesk, whm and webmin.

Could be I'm just feeling extra cranky on account of the deluge of fecal matter making the main site too depressing to even visit most days, but it seems to me that, historically, the existence of these tags has been predicated on the corner-case possibility of on-topic questions related to those tools, but browsing through the questions with those tags now doesn't seem to me to justify keeping them around. It's crap after crap after ask the vendor after RTFM, after not-related-to-crappy-webpanel sandwiched with more crap, with the very occasional tolerable question that's not going to get an answer because the real answer is that processionals don't use that shit, and the OP should learn the OS he's administering.

The only thing I can see that comes from our continuing to suffer the existence of these tags is a broken-window situation, where new users somehow manage to miss all the information about what's actually on topic here, but do manage to find those tags, and then expect that this would be a good place to ask about how to server when cpanel has borken teh websites.

So, what does what's left of the community think? Is it time to get rid of these tags, or is that just my crustier-than-usual mood talking?

Answer 1

This is a particular set of broken windows that is long overdue fixing.

I think though it depends on where you are sitting as to whether your Panel question is topical or not.

• If you are using a Panel to administer a host then you are driving a web application. This is not system administration within the meaning of Server Fault and your question is not topical.

• If you are providing Panel systems to end users then conceivably you might have a panel related question about it's installation/configuration etc. which may be topical on SF.

Having said that I can't recall seeing a question that falls into the latter category so yeah burninate them

On a practical level perhaps we should have a canonical Q&A which tells people why we consider these questions to be off topic which also points people to the relevant support channels. This we can then use as a close target and pile them up as a warning to others

Answer 2

We should ruthlessly close questions which are inappropriate for us, though I have a plot twist:

A few weeks ago I had a discussion with one of the Webmasters moderators, who expressed interest in having questions like this migrated there. They are especially interested in receiving questions about shared web hosting, control panels like cPanel and Plesk, and basic Apache .htaccess stuff.

In future, if you see such a question and it isn't completely brainless, consider flagging it for migration to Webmasters.

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As for the tags, I don't believe they should be burninated, but they should have warnings added to their excerpts (the most likely thing someone will see before asking their question) that their question may be better asked on another site.

Answer 3

See also: Topicality: What should be done with “hobbyist” firmware questions?

My opinion on this hasn't changed: the quality of the question is what matters, not the tools in use. If a question in those tags is terrible, then the normal close criteria apply; if each and every question in those tags is close worthy, then close them all - a blanket ban on all questions in the tags would serve only to further confuse the scope of the site.

Answer 4

" the real answer is that processionals don't use that shit"

Professionals do, sometimes you need to set up limited access through web tools to enable non-technical users to administer simple tasks.

I can't think of a technical way to filter people before they post. Maybe they should answer these questions when they create an account:

• Are you a professional system administrator? y/n?
• If N -> Have you ever been a professional system administrator? y/n?
• If N -> Are you working to become a professional system administrator? y/n?
• If N -> Go to Superuser. No shame, really.
• If Y -> Do you promise to always RTFM? y/n?
• If N -> Lesson 1: always RTFM. Do you still want to become a professional system adiminstrator? y/n?
• If N -> Go to Superuser.

I would rather see non-professional questions be dumped to another site like superuser or, if nothing quite exists for amateur administration, then maybe something should be created.

Degrading the site with non-professional questions sucks.

Answer 5

Despite the communities best effort the plesk , cpanel and whm have recently been resurrected again.

I have taken the liberty to follow Michael Hampton's suggestion and added warnings that explicitly state those labels/topics that are off-topic.

Wiki Excerpt:

Off Topic Warning: cPanel | WHM | Plesk control panel questions are generally considered off topic for ServerFault.

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Full Tag Wiki:

cPanel | WHM | Plesk is web hosting control panel that is supported by vendor example.com

Off Topic Warning:

The majority of questions regarding the cPanel control panel are likely to be closed as they are not considered on-topic for ServerFault:

Questions involving web hosting control panels are off-topic at Server Fault because they customize their systems such that normal administration tools and methods no longer apply, and thus require support from the vendor or the web hosting industry. See Where can I ask questions about web hosting control panels?

There have been several discussions on meta.serverfault.com regarding this policy.

Answer 6

I stand largely with Iain, and I like posting fire, doom, and desolation. Thus:

However, I must disagree that there should be a canonical question, because I can't imagine any useful or on-topic content that one might contain. It is not appropriate for us to maintain a support directory, and that is aggravated by the fact that the software being supported by the supporters in the support directory is not being supported in a context where the user is a professional systems administrator within the definition we use in common practice (i.e. somewhat better than a mere pusher of buttons and a follower of step-by-step instructions with screenshots).

The most appropriate course of action is to close and delete all such questions except those to which the use of a web control panel is incidental. In that case, the tag should be removed since its use is unimportant to the question, and the question may be edited to clarify that the problem being experienced is with some software other than the web control panel.

The tags themselves must most definitely be abolished, and we should consider amending the on-topic help page to include explicit language concerning this topic.

Answer 7

I left a comment in an answer but perhaps my perspective can help a little: I'm the President, CEO, PrimaryL(u)ser for my company. We're not rich enough to pay people to run things for us yet. So my BSEE and technician experience means I'm the Server Admin, Windows/IT guy, network guy, all that. And since my revenue is e-commerce driven, I know more about web programming than anyone making less than $100k should.

Because my role is informal / by need, I consider myself not to be the same as a paid professional whose daily job is real IT, Server, or Network Administration. So I try extra hard to deserve the questions I ask and earn the answers I receive.

If Webmasters wants the "web app admin" type questions, that's awesome! Send those there now and burn the tags. I find my way to specific SE sites via Google and I believe Google will (eventually) redirect people looking for cPanel help there instead of here. Personally, I don't really like magic apps like cPanel, but the hosting company my site is on uses it, so I get to as well.

Answer 8

It's one thing to recommend a product (a no-no in the SF guidelines), it's another to recommend a technology. Basically, it's the difference between a product and an idea. Having those tags, while "helpful", feels an awful lot like the product and not the idea.

We should be encouraging the ideas.

Burn it. BURN IT ALL.