Can we be more polite?

Question

Hello Server Fault people!

I really appreciate this help page entitled Be nice.

https://serverfault.com/help/be-nice

I am frequently concerned with manners. The manners of others and my own. I admit, I'm not perfect and I get irritated and such and say things in such a way that I should not sometimes. I also see it a lot from other users on the site too.

My question is, can we follow the rules from the Be nice. page a little more closely? Can we please enforce these rules a little more strictly? I think it could be good for everyone, especially new users that seem to get slammed pretty hard sometimes when they ask their very first questions. It's what they deserve.

It seems to me (maybe I'm wrong) that impolite or rude right now is mostly just things like:

1. Name calling "You're being a *&%$"
2. Harassing
3. Other very overt and blatant insults

What bothers me are all the statements that fly under the radar. Things that seem ok to some, but perhaps not to others (especially the recipient). I think "what would I do if I co-worker talked to me like that?" and sometimes the answer is not so good. A co-worker would rarely if ever talk to me like that I think... so there's something wrong here.

1. You're in over your head, step away from the computer
2. This is bad advice
3. You don't know what you're talking about
4. You're out of your depth. You don't understand the basics.

Questioning ones personal or professional ability/understanding/intelligence or generally just being rough/harsh with someone to me seems impolite and isn't a "nice" or professional way to talk to someone. Often I find these statements/comments can be reworded easily into a friendly and professional statement.

One section of the above mentioned page is:

Your tone should match the way you'd talk in person with someone you respect and whom you want to respect you.

This is exactly the problem I'm seeing. People are saying things to each other that they would not say in person, especially to a respected co-workers, customer, supervisor, etc... this isn't just a problem with SF, you see it all over the net. I think it's because you're not face to face and there is no repercussions to acting in such a way.

So my question is (including the above)

What does everyone else think? Am I just being a weird stereotypical Canadian obsessed with manners (though I still lose it sometimes too!)? You can answer that, I won't take offense. I understand there are cultural differences.

Should we adhere a little more tightly to the guidance provided by the Be nice. page? Rather than just asking, should we perhaps enforce these "rules" a little bit more strictly and perhaps educate like with other rules (e.g. "Off-topic because...")?

Most importantly - should we all behave like professionals, just as we would in person, dealing with someone that we respect? And should this behaviour be expected of us?

Thank you

Extra question

I wanted to add something... do people agree with the Be Nice page? There's been some downvotes, and answers that seem to indicate some people disagree with the things I stated. So I'm wondering who wrote that page? What do they think? And should it be changed if we're not going to follow the rules? Or do people think we are following the rules?

I'm not complaining (completely). If I can come on SF and apply the "LART" and what not, it could be fun. I just thought things were different here.

Answer 1

There's a difference between being polite and being nice.

It may be polite to hold a beginner's hand and explain in a simple-to-understand fashion how to make a pipe bomb, but it's not nice (or a good idea) to do so. Getting a blunt assessment of incompetence is better than losing an arm and getting a visit from a SWAT team. Or in systems administration terms, it's better than costing your company lots of money and losing your job. There is no conflict between an honest assessment of someone's lack of ability and professionalism.

"You're in over your head, step away from the computer" is being nice and professinal; it offers the good advice to stop making things worse. And while you might not tell someone in person that they're in over their head, not everyone shares that impulse. I have no problem doing that. If you ask me, one of the cruelest things you can do to a person is politely encourage them along the path to self-destruction.

Furthermore, StackExchange is about more than just the poster and anyone who answers. It's about generating quality Q&A for future visitors, which requires culling the crap, which we do by downvoting, closing and deleting. That may not be "nice" to the jerk who posts another "please halp me to server!!!??!1" question, but encouraging that kind of crap (or even allowing it to continue to exist) is not nice and unprofessional to the hundreds or thousands of people who stumble across that thread. The nicest, most professional response to this kind of garbage is to tell the person to stop making things worse, and then get rid of the question so that it doesn't make the internet worse for future visitors.

Answer 2

To quote myself: There is a reason that for the past 20 years Simon Travaglia's long running BOFH series continues to have enormous appeal to system administrators.

Many problems really require only a generous application of the LART. Some of our contributors are polite about that, others leave PC where it belongs, in the office where they get paid for it and prefer to make unambiguous comments and call a turd a turd.

Technology is often like that, unambiguous. You're either doing it right and it works, or you're doing something wrong. They're no shades of grey, almost doesn't make it work.

That simple fact is reflected in our professions communication.

People often attribute too much emotion to what gets written online and those should probably stick to interpreting poetry instead of requesting advice from acerbic system administrators giving blunt direct answers or, heaven forbid, who are actually trying to be funny.

Answer 3

The attitude displayed in comments is IMO a symptom of the problems here, not a part of the problem. I wouldn't be so angry if I didn't have to make 20+ close votes daily just to find a post that looks like someone even tried to find an answer on their own.

I have lowered my standards as to what I consider 'professional' in the way of questions asked to the point where I would happily say 'you are stupid and I will quit if you make me do that' to an actual coworker but on here I would suggest the questioner looks for a site that is targeting beginners.

Without fail that second comment will lead to me being directly insulted.

Nice isn't going to happen until the crap posts greatly decrease in volume or those that want to actively participate in the stated purpose of the site leave. Many already have.

One of those kills serverfault as a community. And you're concerned that we're not being nice. It's a lofty ideal to target but I don't think on the priority of issues here, it's even relevant worth discussing at this point.

Answer 4

With regards to your edit and question regarding the Be Nice page: It comes from our Corporate Overlords and is as far as I know used verbatim in all Stack Exchange communities.

It's not "ours".

As with all codes of conduct and contracts, better to have and not use them rather than need them and not have them.

Also, moderators do follow up on content that gets flagged and brought to our attention as being rude/offensive and such a code of conduct is what gives us the mandate to remove it immediately, rather than leaving it up to community processes to slowly achieve consensus.